Can You Hear Me? 5th Anniversary Special

[00:00:19] Hello everyone and welcome to another edition of the Can You Hear Me podcast. I'm Rob Johnson, President of Rob Johnson Communications. And I'm Eileen Rochford, CEO of the marketing and strategy firm The Harbinger Group. Today is our 5th anniversary special. We have recorded 114 episodes together, which is just mind-blowing and terribly thrilling. It truly is.

[00:00:41] And it's really wonderful to see accolades for the show and responses from so many influential potential guests who want to be on our show. It's just really wonderful to see that. I think we love it. I especially want to say thanks, Rob and I both do, to Good Pods for recognizing Can You Hear Me in many categories as the top podcast in public relations and brand communications and several

[00:01:11] categories, which is really great too. So thanks for that. But really what we're here to do is to share our knowledge and discuss the most pressing communications issues and how business leaders everywhere can just get better because we can all get better. Right, Rob? We can all... Listen, mission is never accomplished. We can all get better. And to your point you were just making, we've done 114 episodes. We would be doing this anyway because we see how important it is,

[00:01:38] but it is nice to have people that are paying close attention like the Good Pods folks that you referenced, kind of give us flowers and say, hey, they're doing a good job. It reinforces, I think, how we feel about what we're doing. And so we don't do it for that reason, but it's nice to get that sort of acknowledgement that, hey, people should listen to this. It's good. It's a top branding or digital marketing or whatever high accolade they give us. It's pretty cool.

[00:02:03] Yeah. I personally just love receiving an email from someone that I really admire, whose content I've watched or listened to for years on LinkedIn asking us, hey, I'd really love to be on your show. And here's what I like to talk about. Honestly, it blows my mind every time. No, it's cool. And then I mean, because you're sitting there and you know, people are listening and all of you out there who are listening, thank you. But it's nice when you know, oh gosh,

[00:02:29] this outreach is working and the messaging is working, but it's just been an absolute joy to be doing it with you for five years. We're getting ready to start our sixth year and it's just hard to believe. And I initially said, when I was first transitioning years ago and had various opportunities to do it and it just never seemed right with various people who'd ask, hey, do you want to do a podcast? And then you're like, hey, we should do a podcast. And it just immediately

[00:02:57] clicked with me. So I'm going kind of way back here because the minute you said it, I was like, that's absolutely right. That's what we should be doing. And I've had just an absolute joy doing it with you because it had the right focus for what we wanted to convey at the time and what we're conveying today. Yes. Well, I just thank you for saying yes. And I'm glad I didn't shrink from asking if you wanted to do the show because it has turned out to be super fun and people really love

[00:03:25] it. It's been really great. And it's been like everything else that we projects we work on together. This is just awesome. And all the folks that are our back office folks, Harbinger Group folks who are making this thing come alive, we couldn't do without them. So we thank them too. Absolutely. Let's give a direct shout out. Without Olivia, this show would never happen. Without Olivia, this show. Yes. I follow your lead. I'll mention whoever you want to,

[00:03:53] but without Olivia, she is outstanding. She is. And without our technical and audio engineer, Declan, no one would hear the incredible quality, sound quality and editing that this show has. And over and over, people who listen to the show comment, not just on the content, but specifically on the quality of the sound and the editing. So huge thanks to Declan as well.

[00:04:19] Oh my God. Declan is terrific. And I remember having a conversation, you and me and him, I don't know, in the last year. And he was talking about, I do hundreds of edits for like a half hour episode. I'm like, you do? I mean, this is the detail he is taking to each and every episode, the pride that he takes in it. So Declan, kudos. Yeah. It's wonderful. I do listen to lots and lots of podcasts and many of them are

[00:04:44] of equal and excellent, even better sound quality, but a lot of them, they're not, they don't take the time to... Most of the ones I hear do not have that. So I mean, I know you listen to more than I do, but, and I know there are some really good ones out there. A lot of the ones I listen to, especially when I'm trying to help clients with their messaging and things of that nature, ones that they go on. And I'm like, I can't believe they left that in. I know. I know.

[00:05:12] Yeah. Well, and on this show, it's going to be kind of fun because we're going to do a little walkthrough of the last season and pull out some audio clips from a bunch of episodes. In celebration, today, we're going to highlight several of our favorite episodes from the past year. The ones we're highlighting are all a little different, starting with how company leaders are talking about AI in episode 95. Here's what Eileen said then. It's not just about figuring out how the tools are used in your organization. It's

[00:05:39] about determining how do I make sure people know how to use them ethically? How do I make sure our clients and customers' questions can be answered? All those things need to be on the table now, right away. I think that still goes for now, even though AI advancements seem to happen every six weeks, and that was probably from initially maybe seven, eight months ago. I think that Soundbite still qualifies as an important thing because the AI tools are incredible. They keep getting more

[00:06:07] incredible every day. But I think you and I have always been proponents of you cannot lose the human touch on those. Absolutely. It's not just about the teaching of the tools. It's why are we going to adopt and use this approach instead? And the basic table stakes aspects of AI, repetitive tasks, any redundancies that you can eliminate, anything that you could produce perhaps a little faster that took a long

[00:06:36] time because we were mining through notes or transcripts in the past. Those are fabulous things. Anyone not doing those things honestly is missing a huge opportunity. But there are many big ways that companies are considering launching enterprise-wide aspects of AI that, in our opinion, if you don't have a thought-through communications plan to introduce, reinforce, consistently communicate and explain, have the proper training in place,

[00:07:06] have the forums for conversations amongst your people, you're not going to be able to do it successfully. So that was a really interesting episode and a great conversation. I know we cited a lot of things from people we admire in organizations or institutes like the Artificial Intelligence Institute led by Paul Reitzer and others as a terrific source. So reinforcing that, get the training, get the people who know what they're doing. Don't let IT lead this.

[00:07:36] Right. No, the leadership needs to be leading that. Yep. Yep. And from a leadership perspective, not from the technical perspective, but if leadership also has not bothered to learn the basics about AI enablement and its capabilities and even how it works, you're not going to be able to be a leader in that capacity. So you kind of have to go take some of those courses offered by places like the Artificial Intelligence Institute. There's an entire

[00:08:05] C-suite track, CEO even track to learn about it. This is definitely your year. I don't think anybody should be dragging their feet on this anymore. The sooner that you learn about it, the sooner that you'll be able to effectively, incredibly communicate about it to your people instead of just saying words that are put under your face by your communications folks. You have to understand it too. Absolutely. And the other thing too, is there's a couple other things relative to this episode.

[00:08:33] Transparency about the uncertainty around AI is very important because you don't want to have any sort of false narratives or false uncertainty out there. And that's, I mean, that could be anything in business, but especially around AI where people are like, is this going to take my job? What's going on? You need to make sure that you're properly communicating it, the realities of AI to the people that work for you. You may not tell them every nuance about it, but they deserve to hear. And

[00:08:58] the other thing is the question about how do I use AI isn't entirely central to the point we wanted to make here, but we also wanted to talk and we did in this episode about how do we use AI ethically and confidently. So that was another important point to drive home, I think. No doubt about that. Yep. And addressed in my opinion, head on that AI isn't here to replace human beings. It's an opportunity for growth and new, you know, charting new territory

[00:09:28] and doing things with more tackling information and the analysis of information and deployment of insight just on a larger scale than we would ever be able to do with just humans alone. So it's an opportunity for growth. It's not an opportunity in my opinion, or, you know, eliminating the purpose of the human being in the workplace. Agreed. Agreed. All right. So on to our next episode, which we're going to focus on, which was

[00:09:54] number 96 in the past year. And it was titled, What Honesty and Transparency Look Like to Employees. And our guest was Stephen Gaffney, the change management and high stake communications expert we had on. He was a great guest. You'll remember Stephen advises many Fortune 500 companies. And here's what he had to say about the topic. The biggest thing I would say is for everybody wants to get the unsaid said. And so the most

[00:10:21] important thing I can say right off the bat around this subject is the biggest problem is not what people say. It's actually what they're not saying. And really, when I'm talking about honest communication, that's the realm I deal with. I think that's really important that he talks about honest communication, because we were just talking about it a second ago. You know, trust isn't just built in good times and everything's perfect. It's sort of rebuilt in bad ones. So I think that he made a really important point about

[00:10:49] that kind of communication, you know, change management and that sort of thing. Because again, whether we're talking about AI or talking about, you know, bringing employees along for the ride, we're talking about the same thing. And it's the way that you properly convey your message where people feel like they have a stake in what's going on and whether it be when and they're not being misled. Absolutely. That point about trust and when it's built is just so important. We talk about trust

[00:11:16] so often on this show and it being the bedrock to frankly, all successful communication, because when people don't trust you, if you haven't put in the work to establish those bonds, anything that you say will be met with skepticism, no matter what it is, even if it's, hey, you're getting a $10,000 raise. Oh, really? Do you know what I'm saying? Right. So I loved what he had to say about trust.

[00:11:40] Also, you have to say, you talked about in times of crisis, leaning into our core values, that if that's how you write out any bad situation, isn't it, Rob? You just kind of dig deep into, so what are we really about? And how do we run this company? Why do we run this company? What's true to our identity and in our DNA? So you got to pull from there because, you know, credibility rides on that too, along with the bedrock of trust. You got to have that.

[00:12:09] And the other thing too, about when we're talking about change management as well, the way the direct communication happens, the thing that Stephen brought up relative to having one-on-ones and those honest face-to-face updates, that's going to rebuild trust faster than sort of broad statements, or I sent out an email to everybody, you didn't get it. The personal touch really matters when you're trying to develop this kind of trust in an organization, I think. I agree. Yes. And I think the final point is that from that episode was that committing to your

[00:12:39] purpose and doubling down on your purpose, especially in difficult times of strife or, you know, crisis, just when things are super hard, doubling down on your purpose and making all of your decisions from that place. Why are we here? What is our mission? What do we stand for? Use all of that as your filter. That was other more great advice that Stephen shared. And sometimes you have to break it down that way. Sometimes you have to go back to that level

[00:13:05] and say, all right, let's, when we're rebuilding here, where do we need to start? And sometimes that's the place you need to start, even though it seems like really, we have to go all the way back there. And sometimes the answer might be yes. It is as simple as that in my experience. Yeah. With most of the C-suite executives that I work with directly, you really have to just remember what's our purpose. And if you do, you end up making the best decisions. I agree. I agree. All right. Let's move on to episode 99. Now this one was near and dear.

[00:13:35] To me and us, because we were able to change the narrative about the slow death of local news. And since that's my former vocation, I have obviously a real interest in making sure that it continues, even though I'm not in it. We welcome Chris Quinn. He is the editor of Cleveland.com to tell us why local news still matters. Now he talked about going from losing money to actually making money by having the newsroom in charge of its own revenue. Take a listen.

[00:14:00] We're not measuring reporters on the dollars they bring in. My job is to look at all that. Their job is to go do stories that people want to read, but they are aware that the care we take with our expenses and by constantly analyzing what our audience wants, that we guarantee jobs. We've actually, our newsrooms in advance have grown, I think every year for the past three years after

[00:14:26] years of not being able to say that. So this absolutely blew me away, Eileen, because all we hear about is how news is losing money, hand over fist, less resources, less money, less influence, all that sort of thing. And what Chris was talking about there was not necessarily having his news people go out and be like, oh, we got to do all the sales, but really hyper-focused on expenses and analyzing what the audience wants and investing in those areas and

[00:14:54] maybe not spending as much money where they don't do that. And I just, for him to say, you know, when I came in, we're losing money, losing money, losing money, like so many of these operations are. And all of a sudden after, you know, very short period of time, a couple of years, I think they, you know, talking about wanting three years to like turn it around and make money. And I think they did it, they were doing that prior to that. That really got my attention.

[00:15:18] And interestingly, he talked at length in that episode about how intelligently they applied various aspects of AI to enable their reporters to do what he called is their job, the actual reporting, meaning they would feed transcripts of local city council, county, they're in Cuyahoga County in Ohio, um, county board meeting transcripts from, you know, months, years,

[00:15:48] draw parallels and insights. They would be able to deliver reporting from those transcripts, even if they hadn't been there because they had the ability to do that through these various tools that they're using that are AI enabled. So it's a great example of how in any organization, you can use these tools brilliantly. If you have forethought and a plan and a good kind of ethical compass about how to apply them and they can lead to growth and to improvement.

[00:16:16] And the Cleveland Plain Dealer is a perfect example of that. Sure. Yeah. I just, I think it was great because to your point about having AI help all these conversations that we have in so many of our episodes about AI and taking jobs. And we even talked about it earlier in this episode. And he was like, listen, I'm going to help you do your job better. You don't have, you having a hard time doing a follow-up story because whenever you do a story in journalism, you know, a lot of times there's a need for a follow-up and it just never happens because you

[00:16:43] don't have the resources to do it. But all of a sudden, AI can help with that. And you talked about the county board meetings, but he was also mentioning, hey, you got to go to the courthouse and sift through six hours of documents. AI can do that. You don't have to do that now. And I thought, oh my gosh, I remember having to do that as a journalist, like go through there, like, I'm not sure what I'm looking for and took forever. And all of a sudden he is presenting AI as a tool to help with efficiency, which helps them with their bottom line,

[00:17:11] which helps them make money and so on. And so- While delivering the local government's insight and facts that because of shrinking newsrooms, communities all over America have not been getting. And that's what I think is so incredible about it. So I would say to anybody that's in that business, this episode 99 from the fall of 25, you got to be listening to it because it was a masterclass. I knew when he agreed to do it,

[00:17:40] because you're more familiar with him than I was. And you're like, he agreed to be on. I'm like, that's great. And then when he told us all the seemingly revolutionary things that he's been able to do, it just absolutely blew my mind. So it was nice to hear somebody say, hey, local news is not dead. We're still relevant. We're still- Yep. We're expanding coverage. We're not in contraction mode. We're in expansion mode. That was just news to my ears.

[00:18:05] So really, really insightful. And just everything that came out of his mouth was just so enlightening. And I don't want to overstate it, but to me, it was kind of profound. I agree. Yeah. Yeah. His approach to this has been, he's setting benchmarks, no doubt about it. They also recently reintroduced comments on their website for their articles, which they had turned off, I think in 2000 or earlier than that, even perhaps.

[00:18:33] So they recently found a way to moderate commentary using AI. Of course. Yeah. That makes sense. It's just, it's really, really impressive. So we'll see what comes of that, but I'm watching it pretty closely. It's pretty interesting. I do think that the ability to have dialogue amongst local communities via media outlet websites is important. So let's see what happens. We'll report on that some other day. So, okay. Our landmark episode, which was episode 100 at the time that blew my mind, it dealt with the wisdom of ignorance.

[00:19:03] So we welcomed Alan Gregerman, the so-called Robin Williams of business consulting. And he says, the best leaders are the ones who can admit what they don't know. If I don't know anything about something, I'm more likely to take a fresh look and imagine new possibilities. So the reality is, I like to say, if you want to make something better, be really smart. If you want to create a breakthrough, don't know anything about all, about it at all, because that really opens you up to new possibilities. So enlightened ignorance

[00:19:31] is a unique kind of ignorance. Okay. And I don't want people just to be ignorant in like a stupid way. What I want people to realize is enlightened ignorance is how breakthroughs have always occurred. I think that is absolutely spot on because how many leaders have you run across? I know I have who are always like, you know, I'm infallible. I have all the answers. I know everything. And Alan just kind of throws and listen, he, he consults a lot of humongous companies.

[00:20:01] Yeah. This guy has a very impressive client list. And for him to say, it's okay to say, I don't know everything. And you know, the, the, the wisdom of ignorance that, and I need, and I need somebody to help me help guide me through it. That's really where some of your people that work for you are valuable and you should be able to lean in on that. And I just thought it was terrific. I totally agree. Operating from a place of what if rather than this is it is the best way to be.

[00:20:30] And, you know, starting with, I probably don't know the answer, so I should assemble some counselors and not state the solution, but instead ask them to evaluate the problem and get a really nice rounded, well-rounded, I should say, sampling of perspectives and feedback to, to sit with and sift through and think about what, what could this all, you know, together taken as a whole create. And as Alan

[00:20:57] puts it, you know, in terms of a breakthrough to take us to a whole new level instead of just solving for a problem, you know, that's what I think is that it was just wonderful about the perspectives that Alan had to share. You had a couple of interesting things. I mean, thinking about your purpose, which drives experimentation and then experimentation that drives innovation. And then there you are. And so you can go from purpose to innovation and, and no time flat, if you think about it that way.

[00:21:25] And also thinking about humility and respect and just enough paranoia to prevent complacency. That's in a good way, in a good way, of course. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No doubt about it. Comfort and complacency are your enemies. Oh, 100%. Totally agree with that. That was a, that was a terrific episode. Alan was wonderful. And he's been somebody who's kept in touch with us, you know, even though we didn't know him prior to it. It's been nice to

[00:21:51] have these relationships with our guests that, you know, the ones we know, obviously, but the ones that we didn't know prior and now we do know them. And I will also say, you know, for the book that, uh, that I'm publishing over communicate that's out now, you know, so, so many of the people have were people that were podcast guests that, that I focused chapters around. Cause I was like, wow, they were really good about this subject or that subject. So I've been really grateful to have those relationships with the people, you know, obviously the ones we've known, but the ones that we didn't know. And now that they're,

[00:22:21] they're friends and collaborators. Yeah, it is great. Um, and we're already thinking about ways to have almost everybody back because they were so good along with lots of new people who keep approaching us too. So I mean, we have every reason to keep the show going with the number of people who are lining up to share their stories and insights with our listeners. It's going to be another great season. I am really excited about it. And, you know, as you know, cause I say it frequently and I know you do too. It's just been a pleasure to be in business with business with you on so many different fronts.

[00:22:51] Uh, this one, especially cause it brings us together and it allows us to share ideas and to talk to interesting people. And I wanted to scratch the creative itch. You know, that was one thing I was really thinking about when I thought, gosh, I should do a podcast all those years ago. And then you came along and it was the right topic. It was the right person. It was the right everything, but it's really fun to be able to continue to create content because, you know, in my old vocation, that's what I did all the time. And, and I would miss it more, um, if I weren't doing this, but thank goodness I'm doing this.

[00:23:22] Me too. Me too. It is lovely just because every single episode feels like, oh, we just did something and it was good. I love that. I do too. I do too. You know, there, there's so much to unpack here, Eileen, and we do 20 plus episodes every year. And it's hard sometimes to figure out which ones of those are our favorites. But I think those of you that are listening today, we've just touched on four of them. You can see why we like them so much, but it's not like the other ones weren't significant or entertaining or captured our attention because they, they truly did. And

[00:23:52] that's to your point about, you know, creating something like this and doing sharing information that's important. And it just, it feels, it feels meaningful. Yeah. So up front, apology to any of our other, you know, 12 or 14 guests who may not have been included in this roundup. You are amazing too. So just want you to know that. Thanks for being here. 100%. We love every single one of our guests, but we thought we'd just do a quick roundup this time. And the underlying theme with our roundup,

[00:24:20] I think there is, there is like something that ties it all together that in an era of these massive AI shifts and just implications overall media disruption and uncertainty, all the things that, you know, we're all reading headlines and experiencing every day, no matter human centered communication remains the constant, whether it's admitting, you don't know being honest that you've

[00:24:47] made a mistake or taking a fresher look at ideas that are sitting right in front of you. The leaders who thrive are those who just, they prioritize clarity. They demonstrate empathy and above all, authenticity over perfection. I think that's what was the unifying, you know, theme of, of our past year and the episodes that we summarized and highlighted today. Absolutely. And, and that's such a great point you made about, you know, you don't have to be

[00:25:15] perfect. You just have to be trying and you have to be moving in the same direction as the people that you work with. That's the most important thing. And so when people are like, I'm not perfect, it's like, that's okay. None of us is either. I'm not, I think you might be Eileen. I'm not sure. I know I'm not. Just like you said at the top of the show today, Rob, everybody can be better. Everybody. We're all a work in progress. Well, thank you so much for listening to our fifth

[00:25:41] anniversary special of Can You Hear Me? I'm Rob Johnson. If you'd like to comment on the podcast or suggest a topic or a guest, please contact us at our Can You Hear Me podcast page or check out the newsletter. Both of them are found on our page on LinkedIn and we'll leave that address in the show notes. Yes. And I'm Eileen Rochford. If you liked what you heard today, please consider giving Can You Hear Me a positive review wherever you get your podcasts like Apple or Spotify because your reviews help listeners find our show, which we deeply appreciate. And don't forget to check out the

[00:26:11] brand new website at canyouhearmepod.beam.ly. Thanks everybody for listening. We hope you learned something today.