Why Podcasts are the Ultimate Owned Asset for Corporate Credibility

[00:00:20] Hello everyone and welcome to another edition of the Can You Hear Me podcast. I'm Rob Johnson, president of Rob Johnson Communications. And I'm Eileen Rochford, CEO of the marketing and strategy firm The Harbinger Group. It seems as though everybody has a podcast today, right Rob? I think so. I mean, five years in, like, come on, we're late to the party. We are not late to the party, but we have people that are OGs that came before us and that's coming up here in a second.

[00:00:49] Yep. So today we're going to examine why podcasts are growing not only in popularity, but in importance when it comes to brand building. At a time when AI search summaries threaten to flatten your messaging and they're already crashing your website traffic, let's be real. Podcasts are more than entertainment. They're the ultimate owned asset for exhibiting genuine human expertise and building credibility. In other words, right now is a really good time to reconsider podcasts.

[00:01:18] Yeah. I mean, it is amazing to see how many people have them. And I'll bet on your block and mine, you know, we could walk 30 seconds and there's probably six people with podcasts. Maybe not that many, maybe three. Well, we have, as I kind of teased a second ago, we have found the perfect expert for this discussion today and we are deeply honored to have her with us. She is Jenny Dietrich, the founder and CEO of Spin Sucks.

[00:01:45] She is the creator of the Peso Model and the host of several top ranked marketing podcasts. She's got more than one. Jenny Dietrich, welcome to Can You Hear Me? Rob, listen, I could listen to you read the dictionary. So if you want to just keep talking, that'd be okay. Eileen and I will just hang out. Oh my God. Send, hold up signs to one another while you talk. To have a podcast expert say that to me just made my day. Trust me. So thank you.

[00:02:12] So before we dive into our main topic, and this is, I'm so interested in what we're talking about today. Why don't you share your origin story, explain the peso model and tell us about your own podcasts because you've been doing it a while and you have several. I do have several and funny, I'll tell you my origin story through the podcast lens. Gosh, probably 2012-ish.

[00:02:37] Joe Thornley from Thornley Follis in Ottawa, Canada came to Martin Waxman and me. Martin is in Toronto and said, hey, listen, the original originators of creators of Inside PR, the podcast are leaving. Are the two of you interested in doing this? So it's been that long that we, yeah, 14 years. That's insane. That's insane. Insane. I am on, I'm actually recording episode 408 of the Spin Sucks podcast.

[00:03:07] So that's what many years. I think that the agency leadership podcast is like 300. So like we're podcasting, but I will tell you, I was at Content Marketing World many years ago and I met a guy who worked for Libsyn and he said to me, I need you to hear something. Women don't start podcasts and we need more women podcasters. And I was like, oh, okay. And it still took me a couple of years to do my own. I was doing the others, but I wasn't doing my own yet.

[00:03:36] But it still took me a couple of years after that. But still to this day, I think the number of the percentage of women-led podcasts is significantly lower than male-led. Even in this day and age, you feel that to be the case still. Yeah. Yeah. You know what's amazing? You said Spin Sucks has 400. The other one has 300. And Eileen and I are so proud five plus years in because we have like 125. That's awesome though. That's a lot. Five years is a lot. Yes. It is. It is. It is.

[00:04:03] But then when you realize like, oh my gosh, we've got 121 on our belt. And then here's Jenny just rolling in with 700 plus. And I'm like, okay. Well, that's combined. Maybe that's why you're our guest. Yeah. I mean, that's a lot of podcasts. It is. Yeah. Yeah. But so you have almost a thousand, I think, if you really. Well, combined. Yeah. Combined. Yeah. Yeah. And 14 years, which is tremendous. Yeah. That's why you're on the show today, Jenny. Just so you know. Absolutely.

[00:04:32] And many other reasons. So tell everybody about the PESO model. Sure. Yeah. It's funny because I wrote a book called Spinsucks. I was writing the book in 2013. And it was published in 2014. And the manuscript was due like the week before Christmas. And so you can imagine like terrible time to write a book, to finish a book. You've got everything else going on. Everything at school. Like it's a disaster at time of year, right?

[00:05:00] Everything's slowing down from a business perspective, but you've got all the holidays and everything. And it was about two weeks before everything was shutting down. And my publisher emailed me and was like, hi. Hi. So this thing that you talk about in here where you have, you know, social media ads and blogging and media relations and social media, organic social media. Does it have a name? And I was like, no. And she goes, it needs a name. And I was like, okay. But Christmas is in two weeks.

[00:05:29] And she's like, I don't care. I was like, all right. So we went back and forth. We went back and forth between OESP and OSCP and SEOP. Like we're trying to figure out. And finally, I said, can we call it peso? Like, I don't know if that's possible since that's a currency. And she's like, let me do the trademark thing. And so she went down the path. And because it's a currency versus a framework at the time that it was okay. So we got that. And then it's like three days before Christmas. And she calls me and she goes, hi. And I was like, hi.

[00:06:00] She goes, we need a graphic. And I was like, Catherine, it's three days before Christmas. And she's like, it is. So what? So I went to Upwork and I found somebody who didn't mind working three days before Christmas. And he created the very first image. And it's still available online of the peso model. And it was paid, earned, shared, and owned media. And then underneath each were tactics.

[00:06:26] And I mean, things like there that were on there were like Google Plus was on there. Vine was on there. Oh, yeah. Like, yes. Yeah. Yeah. It's an artifact. That's for sure. Yeah. So, you know, it did something that I never expected it to. And I think she had the foresight enough to push me to name it and create something visual with it. But I don't think even she realized what it would do.

[00:06:53] And so I had to back into like copyright and trademark and all of that. I've learned a lot over the years on that front. And then we looked at it and we said, okay, well, it's completely outdated because Google Plus doesn't exist anymore. And Vine doesn't exist anymore. And we don't want this to be a list of tactics. We want people to use it strategically. So it's had several evolutions over the past, how long has that been? 12 years. It's evolved now more into an operating system that helps with AI visibility today. Yes.

[00:07:21] And there's the whole certification that you've offered. How many people would you venture to guess have become certified? Thanks to your work. Oh, I just saw that number in our dashboard. I think it's close to 2,000. Wow. Wow. We're in 100 universities. Lots of big companies hire us to teach them how to do it. So yeah, it's a thing. It's a thing. And I want you to know that I have been pushing Marquette University to look hard at the

[00:07:49] Paysom model as well because we have an intern right now who's phenomenal. And I brought this up and he's in the business school where marketing lives at Marquette. And he was like, oh my God, this is amazing. If all this has been explained to me. Yeah. I know, right? We're trying. We're trying. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. So all that is to say that it's a genius approach and it's great for marketers, agency side

[00:08:17] in particular, in my opinion, but also internally for us to be able to use it with finance. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Where the magic is, as you well know. Yes. Okay. So awesome. So we've just established your credibility. There you go. And here we bridge. We are. Beautiful bridge. The master messengers at work here. So, okay. And I'm going to use this word.

[00:08:47] You may agree or disagree, Jenny, but in my opinion, and I think in the opinion of many people, you are truly a trailblazer in marketing in just so many ways. I know you don't like that, but I think it's well worth noting to our listeners. In particular, you've just demonstrated using podcasts to build credibility since you started doing this in 2012, I think you said.

[00:09:11] So tell us, you know, in your view, why is it important to use podcasts, particularly today? And why do you continue to do yours? Because I know you said it and kind of alluded to it. It took you a while to do your own. And you were, you know, as we agreed in a prior conversation, maybe you were a reluctant podcaster. Yeah. I don't love doing it. Still to this day, I don't love doing it. Every week.

[00:09:36] The irony is so rich that here she is, our podcast expert. And she's like, I don't like doing them. Is it that you don't like it or it's just like, oh God. It does. There you go. Okay. It works. Tell us why. How does it work? Yeah. I mean, like, so a couple of things. One is that I prefer to write. That's my creative outlets. And I work, I think much better through my fingertips. So the idea of like sticking a microphone in front of my face and just talking is not comfortable to me.

[00:10:05] So when they fight, my team finally convinced me to do a podcast, they were like, you don't have to create anything new. We're not going to start out with guests. You can do it by yourself. It's going to be really easy. You're going to use content you've already created. And I was like, okay, fine. But, you know, when you think about the universe of how people learn, most people do not learn by reading. Most people learn by watching or listening.

[00:10:33] And when you think about that and how they prefer to, I hate this word, but consume their content, listening and watching are the two best ways to reach them. And that is why I do it over and over and over again. Like we added video YouTube, which I fought kicking and screaming. I was like, I like recording my podcast in my pajamas at 7am on Sunday. And she's like, sorry. So now we have video too, but it works. So, okay. We keep going.

[00:11:03] Well, I must say for those who are watching this on YouTube for whom this is not a audio only experience, you are the best dressed here today. No offense, Eileen at all. I'm looking at us. I'm like, we're good. Like, I'm good. Like I look very appropriate. Eileen, you do too. Jenny, I'm like, no wonder she's got a thousand of these under her belt. Good Lord. I bet she's wearing pajama bottoms. I'm just going to die. You don't have to show us. My new Spanx pants. Oh, thank you.

[00:11:33] You'll have to show me those later. It's very nice. Okay. You said they work. Tell me, I understand your point about how people learn and that's awesome. How do podcasts work specifically for building credibility? I think, well, I think it does a couple of things. I definitely think it builds credibility for sure, but it also drives business. And I think podcasting drives business better than any other medium.

[00:11:57] And so we have clients who their leaders will invite prospective customers onto their podcast, especially from a B2B perspective. And then they build the relationship that way. And then there's always a, well, hey, tell me more about what you do or what your product is or how your services are. Things like that. That always comes out of it. And so it's a really easy way to do sales, especially if you're thinking about account-based management marketing,

[00:12:22] where you're like, I really want to get in front of XYZ company and they are not returning our phone calls or don't respond to our emails. Let's invite them, their CEO, to the podcast. And all of a sudden, there is a great, great inroad there. And the gatekeeper is not existent from that perspective. So I would say that is number one. But number two, it does create credibility because you do have to think on the fly and you do have to have an actual thought for your thought leadership.

[00:12:49] And you do have to talk through things and explain them in a way that people listening will understand. Otherwise, your podcast isn't going to be successful. So I think it's twofold. You can use it for both credibility and for business development. And that's a really great point, too, about the charm offensive. Oh, can't get them to return our calls. Want to be on our podcast? Right, right. And then we run into people a lot who come on our podcast. They're like, hey, I've got a podcast. So why don't you come on mine? And so it's reciprocal, isn't it? Yeah. Yeah.

[00:13:17] And Emily, the story, Rob, that you told when we did our pre-work on this about the client that was in your book that now has a whole podcast studio because of how effective it is. Those kinds of stories, I don't think, are few and far between. I think that's pretty typical. You realize how effective it is and you invest in it. I'm glad you brought that up because I was going to talk about it a little bit later. But Marty Ozinga, who's the CEO of Ozinga, the concrete company, he was Chapter 13, the culture builder.

[00:13:45] Of course, I think it was Chapter 9 in the book. But they built a full-on studio. And they have three staff members that are doing the production work. It's right when you walk into their headquarters in Mokina. It is outstanding. It's crazy. And not only does Marty do it, but one of their safety directors has his own podcast. So they have two podcasts going on right now relative to the business. Marty's is more, he really just gets interesting people on so it's not all about their industry.

[00:14:14] But the safety one is about the industry. And I think I gave him credit because he didn't have to do it. He's the CEO. He's really busy. And yet he found time, money, everything to make this investment because it's not cheap. When you see that podcast, it's outstanding. And they've really made that investment. And he has to find the time to be the CEO and to be all things to all people and to build his culture and still do it. And it's really good.

[00:14:43] So I'm glad you brought that up because I was going to bring it up. And I just think that I wish more people would do it. You know, I make that commitment, but not everybody wants to make that sort of financial and time commitment. Sure. Yeah. It's terrific. Yeah. Yeah. I love that story. So, so Jane, let me ask you this question. What do you think, what risk do you run if you don't utilize a podcast and your marketing mix? It's not the solution, but it's part of the solution. Do you have a story about someone who say missed a golden opportunity because they said no to podcasting?

[00:15:12] They were stubbornly or for whatever reason saying, I don't want to do it. And then they got, maybe they got left behind a little bit. Is there anything that rings a bell with you on that front? Yeah. I think it's, I mean, I wouldn't necessarily use the word risk, but it is, um, you know, tempting to say, oh, I just don't have time. I don't have time for this.

[00:15:31] And, you know, I mean, you both know you, you have clients who say, oh, well, I was golfing and so-and-so said that they were in the New York Times or I was golfing and they, so-and-so said that they were featured in such as how I built this or, you know, whatever happens to me. And you're like, you won't make time. You can also have that, but you have to make time. And I think that that's the risk from a, not just a podcast perspective, from a marketing perspective, you have to have leaders and it doesn't have to be the CEO.

[00:16:01] It, you know, depending on how the organization is run, it might be the CEO. It could be a chief of staff. It could be a CEO. It could be a safety director, right? But it's really about how do you present the company in a new and interesting way so that both human beings and robots understand who you are, what you do, how they can work with you and all those things. Excellent points. All of them. I hope our listeners are gluing into it's about missed opportunity largely and you got to make the time and prioritize it.

[00:16:31] Okay. So let's ask this question. So the incentive, you kind of established that it's the, there's the sales incentive. That's obvious for starting or continuing to host a podcast. But what other incentives can you identify from your own experience? And I'll ask this question. You really use your podcast very effectively in how you run your business and marketing strategy for Spin Socks.

[00:16:59] Maybe there's some learnings there that you could impart to our listeners, perhaps. I saw on TikTok just yesterday, I think. I see these like bro messages where it's like, if you spend $50, you'll make $250 million a trillion. And you're like, okay. All right. But I do pay attention to that kind of stuff because it's our industry, right? And I saw one yesterday that was almost there.

[00:17:26] But what really, it was a bro, so I was kind of like, okay. But what really was interesting about it is they were talking about how easy it is to take one big piece of content, like a podcast or a YouTube video, and then create hundreds of assets from it. And he showed like one podcast episode became 60 pieces of content. And I was like, okay, that's actually pretty good because it's true. So you can create blog posts from it. You can create all sorts of social assets from it.

[00:17:54] You can create more video, like reels and TikTok videos and all of it. It's a really easy way to do that. So you create something once it takes you... I mean, for me, it probably takes... I say all in, it's probably three hours a week. You could probably do it in less time if you didn't need to write it yourself. But I'm a little controlling on my own messaging. So I do that. So but like if you have a team that's willing to help you get there, you can probably do it in an hour a week.

[00:18:22] And then all of the assets that are created from that are significant because you can. You take one piece of audio or... Well, and if you're recording it on video, you can take that and create reels. And you can create videos and YouTube shorts and all of the things, right? So it's a really easy way to do that. You yourself don't have to do that. Your team can do that. AI can do some of it. There are opportunities here for you to use tools at your disposal, but it will create a lot of assets for you. Yeah. Just jam-packed. Absolutely. Yeah.

[00:18:52] And the way that you started your answer, Jenny, about how one larger piece of content can turn into hundreds just made me think about how... What is it? 15 plus years ago now that Andy Crestodina published Content Chemistry. Yeah. That was like the entire premise. Remember? Yeah. And it still holds true today. And I think even more so in this current marketing environment. So podcasts really are... I wouldn't call it easy.

[00:19:21] I don't think any of us, all three of us... No, it's not easy. Yeah. ...do them, right? It's not easy, but it is highly, highly effective for that very reason. No doubt about it. And honestly, it's a little fun. And I think anybody who does finally jump in gets to experience that fun too. They're kind of like, wow, I am an expert and I do want to talk about this. And I want to have dialogues with other experts and stand out in the industry. And have a conversation. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:19:51] I will also say that as somebody who used to create content all the time in my old career, television, when I quit doing that and I was going in this consulting route, and Eileen came to me and said, we should do a podcast. And I've told this story several times and I'd had other people say, we should do a podcast. We should... And it just never felt right. And this one just completely felt right. And it's also scratching the creative itch. If you like to be creative, this is also an outlet.

[00:20:20] Aside from all the benefits that you've been talking about, it also fills that void too sometimes. And for me, it's still fun to know that I have something. And it's not about me. It's about, can you hear me? It's about Eileen and me. But for me, it's a great joy to be able to do it because I do like creating content. And I said creating content four times, the term that you loved a few minutes ago. You're welcome. Yep.

[00:20:46] Do you ever find, Jenny, when you're doing your shows, do you ever find yourself like kind of remembering, oh my gosh, this is why I love that. No, I hate it. No. Okay. All right then. Maybe when you're writing your awesome newsletter. I do take a few liberties with the newsletter and I do have a little fun with that. Oh, so much fun. Yeah. I love your newsletter just because it's both witty, totally on point and super informative. And that combination is so rare.

[00:21:15] So I love it. When she was talking about chopping up all the content and everything and it's like the video, no, thank you. The blog posts, the writing, I'm all good. Yeah. So we know where you stand there. Yeah, absolutely. A for honesty on that answer. I will also tell you that our marketing manager, I'm positive she will watch the entire video and it's usually like 18 to 20 minutes.

[00:21:40] And she will pause it on the most ridiculous thing I do or say in every episode. And it could be like minute 16, 22 and she would find it. And that's what she uses on social media. I don't know how she does it, but it happens every time. Oh, God bless her. It must be working. That's awesome. It must be working. So, you know, Jenny, I'm sure there are a lot of people out there who, okay, we've gotten them past the value of doing it. So now they say, oh, there's value in doing this. I get that.

[00:22:05] But they are really feeling overwhelmed by getting it off the ground. It's one thing to say, I'm going to do a podcast. Then it's another thing for the mechanics to kick in and for you to be able to execute it. So how do you get one going easily? Well, if you have a team, it's a little bit easier. But even if you're building a team or you don't have a team yet, how do you go from I'm going to do it to I did it? I will tell you that you trying to do it by yourself is probably not going to work.

[00:22:35] There are lots of people out there that have podcast studios, lots of podcast creators, all of that that can do it for you. I literally had a friend come to me and she said, we're starting a podcast business. You should have a podcast. And I was like, okay, blah, blah, blah, blah. And she's like, no, I promise you, I will make it as easy as possible. And so she took some of my content that I had already published. She put it into a script and she said, read this. And the first couple, I was like, this is not working.

[00:23:05] And she's like, just keep trying. And so after probably four or five, I was like, all right. But she did all the work. She did it all. And now I write my own now and I record it by myself. Wow. Yeah, but not in the beginning. And now they do all the production and everything. But if she hadn't come to me and said, I'm starting this business and I want you to be my first client and here's what I'm going to do for you. I probably still wouldn't have one. But she did it all. She did it all. You highly recommend the total outsource. It sounds like.

[00:23:35] Yeah. Okay. Good to know. If you have a team that can do it for sure. But yeah, I mean, they just can't. They handle everything. They handle all the uploads to every place it needs to go. They handle it all. Yeah. I don't have to worry about any of it. Sound familiar? It sure does. Yeah, exactly. Because we have a team too. So that's how we do it. Yeah. This particular show. Yeah. So you highly recommend the outsource. In our show notes, we'd love to include your friend's company.

[00:24:03] Oh, she would love that. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So you can send that to us. And we'll include a couple others too. Just so people can get a, here's a super easy start here roadmap. Yeah. Yeah. Something actionable. I love it. Since we're promising. We would love to make our show. You can walk away from listening to this show and you can do something, people. That's right. You can start a podcast. Yes, you can. Heck, if we can do it, I think anybody can do it, Rob.

[00:24:33] Right? Somehow we're doing it. Yes. I agree. Okay. So once you have the episodes under your belt or even maybe before, what guidance can you give Jenny about the most effective way to leverage said podcast for the benefit of your company? And if you have an example of a client who has successfully done this or example of your own organization, whatever you want to use. I'd love to hear about it. Yeah.

[00:25:02] We launched a podcast, helped a client launch a podcast probably three years ago. And it was kind of like the concrete business. It was not a super exciting business, very B2B, boring, super... What's the word I want? Shoot. It just left my brain. Commoditized business. Totally competes on price all the time. Except that one of their founders is a former Secret Service agent. And I was like, you know what? There's something interesting here. There it is. Oh, yeah.

[00:25:32] Let's talk about this. And so getting him to come out of his shell a little bit and talk about some things that he could talk about was challenging in the beginning. And so he and I would do rehearsals and I would just get him talking. And then he would say things and I would write things down that I thought would be interesting for a topic. But I really... I just spent probably an hour a week with him for five or six weeks just interviewing him. But I did it. I made him go get into Riverside and record it. I made him be on camera.

[00:26:01] I did all the things he would have to do when he launched a podcast to get him comfortable. But then to get sort of the topics, I interviewed him. And we just had a conversation for 35 or 40 minutes. And then I would pull nuggets out. So he tells some great stories about just even when he realized he wanted to be a secret service agent. He was... Yeah, it was when Robert Kennedy Jr. Or Robert F. Kennedy was assassinated. And how that made him feel as a child and why he wanted to participate.

[00:26:31] And so we kind of went down that journey. And it became incredibly popular because not only did he have such a great story to tell, but we were able to connect to the business and bring in really interesting guests as well. And he got really good at it. But it did take... It probably took me... It probably took three months of just sort of prep and understanding and pulling stories out and figuring out who guests would be and all of that. And then we started to go. But that's how we did that.

[00:27:01] And that's the hardest part sometimes because I've noticed that in my business, there is more and more desire to have podcasts. It's not booming per se, not like yours, but finding the right person that could not only be the technical expert, but also the kind of clearing house for all the great ideas to the point you were making earlier about you can't do it on your own. And then to incorporate a social media person that's going to take all of that. And what did you talk about earlier? Chopping it up, making it digestible, things of that nature.

[00:27:30] I mean, these things are really, really important. And so if you're looking to be successful, as you were just talking about, getting those folks that have that specific skill set, I think is just vital. And so for me, it's been fun because that's one area of Rob Johnson communications that's actually grown when people say, we want to do a podcast. And to your point about, there's a lot of handholding at first. There was a lot of, you were talking about rehearsals and just various coaching that needed to happen.

[00:27:56] And now one of my clients who's been doing it a year and a half, they're pretty much locked and loaded all the time. They know what to do. They know how to do it. They know they have their cadence. I don't have to be, I'm overseeing it, but I'm not, my hands are, you know, I'm not in the weeds with them like I was when we first got going. So I think you made a great point there. Yeah, I think that's right. And finding people, to your point, yeah. Like having, to your point, finding the people that have the skill set, but even just like sitting down and having a conversation with somebody and letting them ask questions,

[00:28:25] that's going to pull some of those nuggets out too. Yeah. That's a great way to start. Any specific guidance on how to leverage the show after you've produced it, you know, the conversation and the storylines and things? Any thoughts on that? Yeah. I mean, one, you have to be patient because it doesn't happen overnight at all. But part of inviting guests, right, is leveraging their networks. So making it as easy as possible for them to share.

[00:28:52] And so if you have a social media person or a marketing person or a comms person, have them help you craft what I would call podcast interview kits for the guests. So they have some social media assets, they have some quote graphics, they have... We like to give the full video and audio transcript and files so they can chop it up any way they want to. So that kind of stuff just make it super, super easy for you to be able to leverage their network. I think that's probably the key in the beginning, especially. Absolutely.

[00:29:21] That's great advice to give the raw assets. Excellent. That's great. I have to admit that you just taught me something. Thank you. Oh, good. You're welcome. Yeah. Awesome. Oh my God. Thank you. That's a great idea. And we're going to do that from now on. Of course. The nuggets have been plentiful here today. But before we conclude, do you have any final thoughts that you would like to share with everyone? You've already given some great wisdom. Yes. Even if you hate it, it's worth it. It is. That's why I keep doing it.

[00:29:52] Yeah. It's worth it. You can attest to that. Yeah. It is worth it. And we encourage everybody who's listening, just give it a shot. Yeah. See where you can take it. Yeah. I mean, that's how people get their information. So they're walking the dogs, they're commuting. Some people apparently can work and listen at the same time. I cannot, but some people can. So it's a great way to get undivided attention in people's ears. And can I just say one last thing that we haven't touched upon that speaks to what you just talked about?

[00:30:21] When you don't have the script and you're showing subject matter expertise, this is also 30 plus minutes right now. And it's breathing and we're able to be real with each other. And it's not something that's super scripted and contrived. It's like real people sharing good ideas with each other and just having that interaction. And that human element, I think, that relatability element, I think is something that we should not overlook to. Yep. Totally agree with that. 100%. Yeah.

[00:30:48] I will tell you that as a closing note, that my 13 year old has a friend who found my podcast and he listens to every episode. So he's 14. And I was like, Nathan, why do you listen to every episode? And he goes, I just like hearing you talk about whatever you're talking about. I'm like, okay. That is incredible. Sure of all. Oh my gosh. You never know who's going to listen or who you're going to, whose life you're going to affect. Well, I hope you share it with him.

[00:31:18] I hope you share this one with them. I will. Yeah. Oh, I was on this other podcast. Listen to this. You might like this one. My great wisdom. Yeah. Is this the first time you've ever mentioned Nathan on a podcast? It is. Do we have that honor? It is. Oh my God. I'm so excited. That's amazing. Well, we're honored. Okay. Shout out Nathan. Nathan! Super listener. Okay. All right then. Guys, I am so sad for this to come tune in. I have to say.

[00:31:44] I like for how long I held out on asking you to be a guest. And I was like, why is she not asking me? I'm so sorry. I didn't mean to offend you. You didn't offend me. You know, I was letting my fangirlness get in the way. I just was like, you know, I'm like, of course, your friend. Of course, I know you. But you're such a big deal. I got wine glasses from you. I will definitely be on your podcast. And I hope you think of me every time you drink. I do. I'm only sorry we all don't have a glass in front of us right now.

[00:32:15] Seriously, we should have done that. Okay. Well, I just want to say thanks. It's been such a pleasure. So good to hang out with you both. I love it. I love it. And you're right. I just, I think the reason why I wanted to do the podcast with Rob is I could listen to his voice all day long. So we both got that pleasure. Yellow pages, anything. I don't care. Do the yellow pages even exist anymore? Read them. I don't care. Okay. But thanks for being the best possible expert we could have had for this topic today.

[00:32:45] And gosh, Jenny Dietrich, founder and CEO of Spin Sucks. Thank you for being with us. Thanks for having me. It was an absolute joy. So that's going to do it for another edition of Can You Hear Me? I'm Rob Johnson. If you'd like to comment on the podcast or suggest a topic, please look for the Can You Hear Me podcast page or check out our newsletter. They're both found on our LinkedIn page. Or you can go to our website at canyouhearmepod.beam.ly.

[00:33:13] We'll leave that address and all relevant information in our show notes as we always do. Yay. And also show notes, lots of things about how to get started easily doing a podcast. So look out for those little tidbits of additional advice. I'm Eileen Rochford. If you liked what you heard today on Can You Hear Me? Please consider giving our show a positive review wherever you get your awesome podcasts. Apple, Spotify, whatever the heck. It doesn't matter to us.

[00:33:40] Your reviews will help other listeners find our show, which we deeply appreciate. So thanks, everybody, for listening.